Do You Even Lit?

Brief Interviews With Hideous Men, part 2: If you can fake sincerity you've got it made

This week's discussion is loosely based around the story Octet, but really we just drill down on what David Foster Wallace is trying to achieve in this collection.
How much metafiction is too much metafiction, does DFW stray into self-indulgence, the leap of faith he asks from his readers, is it possible to tactically and deliberately try to be sincere (or is this another double bind), and whether Brief Interviews is really about toxic masculinity.
CHAPTERS
(00:00:00) The paradox of trying to come across as sincere
(00:09:16) Overdosing on DFW’s schtick
(00:18:05) is Wallace stylistically rangebound as a writer?
(00:22:29) DFW’s take on empathising with the reader
(00:25:57) Is Brief Interviews really about toxic masculinity?
(00:32:49) Wittgenstein and the language problem/solipsism

David Foster Wallace's Brief Interviews With Hideous Men, part 1: Weaponised therapy-speak

Wallace's 1999 collection of short stories takes us to some uncomfortable places (and as always, is eerily prescient).
In this week's discussion we talk about his 'juvenilia' coming-of-age story Forever Overhead, his famous piece The Depressed Person, and a smattering of the titular brief interviews.
We kinda fucked up the format on this by trying to talk about everything. But salvaged some bits about nostalgia, the blurred lines between narcissism and depression, therapy culture, and why metafiction is played out.
CHAPTERS
(00:00:00) quick blather and disclaimer
(00:01:55) Forever Overhead: mainlining nostalgia of late childhood
(00:09:04) starting to get sick of DFW’s tics and the metafiction schtick in general
(00:14:54) Brief Interview #11 (the guy who keeps leaving his gf because she is worried about him leaving her again)
(00:17:52) Brief Interview #3 (the airport shaggy dog story)
(00:20:40) Brief Interview #31 (how a great lover really pleases a lady)
(00:26:02) The Depressed Person: sincere or a satire of self-obsessed narcissists?
(00:34:14) is identifying with this character a massive self-own
(00:37:30) Should everyone really go to therapy?
(00:44:24) Having a cute baby as cure for depression

Virginia Woolf's To the Lighthouse, part 3: We finally get to the fucking lighthouse

An anticlimactic final discussion to an anticlimactic book. We are confused and afraid. Cam is on the brink of quitting reading altogether.
This discussion covers Parts 2 and 3 of To The Lighthouse. Actual book-related content starts at 11 minutes.
CHAPTERS
(00:00:00) Normative ethics and incest cold open
(00:11:00) Infectiousness of social energy
(00:15:16) The Chad Carmichael vs the Virgin Tansley
(00:22:16) Entropy and the passage of time
(00:26:21) Lily Briscoe as Virginia Woolf
(00:33:00) sidebar on which book to read next
(00:34:32) On finally getting to the lighthouse
(00:42:22) What's the significance of Lily's painting?
(00:43:48) Final thoughts on why this book gave us trouble

Virginia Woolf's To The Lighthouse, part 2: Portrait of the autist as an old man

Rich waxes lyrical about the dinner party scene. Do men have impaired theory of mind, or are they just assholes? On the invisible mastery of social reality, and capturing subjective experience in literature. It goes well enough that the boys decide to actually read the rest of the book.
CHAPTERS
(00:00:00) pre-roll jibber jabber
(00:12:55) a man monologues on the male tendency to monologue
(00:17:35) bogged down by poetic prose
(00:22:33) Women as facilitators of social interactions
(00:32:02) Do women have better theory of mind, or are men just assholes?
(00:42:12) Mastery over social reality is invisible
(00:48:34) Subject-object distinction
(00:51:50) Where to from here
(00:55:27) Further thoughts on value of subjective experience in writing
(01:02:06) Are we gonna actually finish the book

Virginia Woolf's To The Lighthouse, part 1: Skill issue

A fragmented jumble of multiple shifting perspectives, punctuated by abrupt jumps between topics and timelines, infused with the frustration of trying to express intensely-felt experiences within the bounds of mere words.
(oh and we also talked about a Virginia Woolf book)
 
CHAPTERS
(00:00:00) - we are NOT going to the lighthouse
(00:11:16) - Rich makes the case for persevering
(00:14:16) - Cam pleads preference for plain prose
(00:17:51) - Ideas that can only be conveyed through fiction
(00:25:21) - Synopsis of part 1: The Window
(00:27:30) - Autobiographical elements from Woolf's life
(00:29:40) - What ideas would a modern Bloomsbury group explore?
(00:32:15) - C.P. Snow's The Two Cultures: literature as status game
(00:40:40) - Bryan Boyd lens on the importance of stories for advancing knowledge
(00:44:33) - exquisite peer pressuring Cam into continuing with the book

Borges' Garden of Forking Paths: a ramble through the multiverse

These days the 'multiverse' idea is standard marvel slop. But if we read this story in 1941 it would have blown our tiny little minds.
how tf did Borges sit at the cutting edge of philosophy and physics without doing the classic info-dump spergy thing?
We read one of our favourite stories in search of Clues
(actual plot-related analysis starts around the 1 hour mark)
 
CHAPTERS
(00:00:00) synopsis and throat clearing
(00:06:43) Borges the troll (death of the author redux)
(00:16:23) How this mf had so many original ideas
(00:22:12) Cho Chang discourse
(00:30:30) Conceptual analysis of being cool
(00:42:20) History of the multiverse
(00:52:23) ambiguity of the Liddell Hart intro
(01:01:22) Fatalism and free will
(01:18:53) What motivates Yu Tsun?
(01:25:05) maze strategy chat
(01:31:20) When we first encountered the multiverse
(01:34:00) Does multiverse imply all possible things happen?
(01:49:25) Real hypertext has never been tried

John Williams' sleeper hit Stoner: Finding perfection in mediocrity

Our critical consensus on John William's sleeper bestseller Stoner:
There is almost no plot
The main character doesn't get the girl, or really succeed at anything
Gigantic violation of 'show don't tell', starting on literally page one
WE FUCKING LOVE THIS BOOK
could it be...a perfect novel?
we try figure out why we relate so hard to Mr William Stoner, the great shining exemplar of principled mediocrity.
CHAPTERS
00:00:00 - the perfect novel
00:06:23 - synopsis
00:10:20 - why each of us loved this book
00:17:02 - Mediocrity as the modal outcome
00:22:26 - Is Stoner a good stoic or too passive?
00:33:24 - Edith and toxic femininity
00:42:36 - Subverting the hero/saviour trope
00:48:00 - The Lomax/Walker feud
00:58:30 - Academia as an asylum for misfits
01:03:00 - Lust and learning with Katherine Driscoll
01:07:30 - Dying with dignity
01:10:32 - Where does this stand in the canon?
01:17:18 - Ignoring ’show don’t tell’, plain sincere prose
01:20:40 - assorted culture war stuff
01:28:35 - choosing next book

Michel Houellebecq's Map and the Territory, part 3: The world is weary of me and I am weary of it

closing out the last section of the book with death, entropy, and thwarted ambitions:
Why David Deutsch wouldn't approve of Houellebecg
True artists impose their vision upon the world
Sacred values and euthanasia
Should kanye get back on his meds
Not sure why the audio cuts off abruptly at the end but it does feel appropriate
CHAPTERS
(00:00:00) Third act murder mystery wtf
(00:08:03) Yearning for some bygone era
(00:13:49) Deutschian critique of MH’s pessimism
(00:20:38) Euthanasia and sacred values
(00:30:52) What does Houllebecq’s death signify?
(00:39:44) Final thoughts on map vs territory
(00:48:23) being open to criticism vs imposing a singular artistic vision upon the world

Michel Houellebecq's Map and the Territory, part 2: Post-industrial society and its discontents

This section is light on plot but we do get a coherent theme: the perversions that emerge from consumer capitalism's relentless optimisation process.
will our hero Jed maintain his artistic integrity and stop feeding the beast? does Houellebecq think of himself as a kind of ethnographer? Does the g-spot actually exist? etc
 
benny's audio still sucks. actual book content starts at 00:06:19
 
CHAPTERS
(00:00:00) what if we kissed under the mistletoe
(00:06:19) is art just expensive furniture
(00:17:48) refining Houllebecq's actual beef with consumer capitalism
(00:21:51) how true creativity can be corrupted by profit motive
(00:27:42) b*stiality bodycount digression
(00:29:53) Houllebecq as neutral ethnographer
(00:36:34) hot people are smarter too. its not fair
(00:42:18) height discourse
(00:48:14) William Morris
(00:52:47) trying and failing to talk about death
(00:55:28) how many holes are down there anyway??

Michel Houellebecq's Map and the Territory, part 1: Memeing big fat juicy asses into reality

Some good stuff coming up already in part 1 of The Map and The Territory:
how our models of the world can change underlying physical reality
is modern art a psyop?
why plato would hate 'brand-name' tourism experience
benny's audio is completely cooked on this. I lost the files so I can't fix it sorry
CHAPTERS
(00:00:00) playdough’s cave
(00:04:01) is modern art a psyop
(00:07:59) straussian readings of plato
(00:12:21) map-territory distinction
(00:16:21) jed is a true artist
(00:25:00) raising children without the threat of physical violence
(00:31:00) what blows jed’s skirt up?
(00:40:40) woody allen goat
(00:44:10) rotten tomatoes manufactures mediocrity
(00:51:33) its good art brent!
(00:53:20) when the map changes the underlying territory, part 1
(00:58:05) wanky status signals can still mediate subjective experience
(01:05:50) modern books are easier to read
(01:11:42) when the map changes the underlying territory, part 2