Do You Even Lit?

holy shit this was hard. Our first attempt at shakespeare and it was a doozy!
Rich struggled through the original text and only had the vaguest idea what was going on. Cam watched every single movie adaptation and studied for two weeks but still got casually mogged by his girlfriend.
By the time we got done with the discussion we were all actually hyped to read more shakespeare so something must have gone right.
Covering such topics as:
The impenetrability of Shakespearean english, whether it's better to read modern translations or the original text, our favourite lines and soliloquies, shitting on the Freudian reading, connections to David Foster Wallace's Infinite Jest, and Hamlet as the archetypal annoying theatre kid.
CHAPTERS
(00:00:00) intro
(00:03:53) ye olde Shakesperean english vs modern translations
(00:14:52) Cam’s film corner segment
(00:18:07) Hamlet’s pathological indecisiveness
(00:23:27) To be, or not to be?
(00:25:34) shitting on the Freudian/oedipal reading
(00:32:12) Ophelia and Gertrude’s motivations
(00:34:06) protestant heaven loophole
(00:42:15) favourite lines and famous quotes
(00:45:05) Influence on DFW and other theatre kids
(00:48:12) There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so
(00:51:44) we rescue the freudian/oedipal reading!
(00:53:08) what does the clusterfuck of an ending signify
(00:58:07) will we engage with W. Shakespeare again in future
(01:03:37) Terrence Howard penis size analysis
SHARE YOUR THOUGHTS:
THE ADDRESS I SAID IN THE RECORDING IS WRONG! it has since been changed to douevenlit@gmail.com
 
NEXT ON THE READING LIST:
Piranesi - Susanna Clarke
Crime and Punishment - Dostoyevsky

This one starts slow but it ends up being one of my favourite book clubs ever.
Camus' last finished novel was The Fall (1956). It has a lot of personal resonance for Rich and the other boys loved it too.
Loss of innocence: how much of our behaviour comes down to signalling? Is there such a thing as genuine altruism? Is it dangerous to learn about this stuff? Was David Foster Wallace's 'new sincerity' idea doomed from the outset?
Escaping the double bind: Choosing which status games to play, finding solace in sports and other explicit games, why hedonism doesn't work, moving awareness away from the self and towards others, dissolving the problem of a meaningless universe.
Performative castigation: Is Jean-Baptiste's judge-penitent stance actually coherent? The pitfalls of woke ideology, recursive traps of judging people, and why virtue signalling is good, actually.
Religious interpretations: The biblical fall, Jean-Baptiste as antichrist, the death of God, and organised religion as laundering scheme.
 
CHAPTERS
(00:00:00) worst opening segue competition
(00:03:25) Is the pre-fall Jean-Baptiste a virtuous person?
(00:07:22) Some personal reflections
00:17:10) Signalling theory and loss of innocence
(00:30:19) How to cope with a bottomless pit of suffering
(00:37:17) David Foster Wallace and the curse of pathological self-awareness
(00:51:41) Judging the judge-penitent: has Jean-Baptiste really solved his problem?
(01:02:48) Pro and anti-religious interpretations
(01:14:24) Free will and (dis)continuity of personal identity
(01:26:50) Strategies for escaping from the spiral of self-awareness
(01:32:20) Is the idea of a meaningless universe a reductionist mistake?
SEND US MAIL:
douevenlit@gmail.com
 
NEXT ON THE READING LIST:
Hamlet - Shakespeare
Piranesi - Susanna Clarke
Crime and Punishment - Dostoyevsky
 

Philip K. Dick is a sci-fi legend, but the boys have only ever seen the film adaptations of his work (Blade Runner, Minority Report, A Scanner Darkly).
Dick's 1969 classic Ubik has us divided. Benny is mad that major premises are introduced and then abandoned, internal logic is sloppy, and the twist ending is lazy writing. Rich and Cam are charmed by the imperfections and think it heightens the sense of (un)reality. 
Is Ubik a metaphor for God? What are the parallels to Gnosticism, and who is the demiurge behind the false reality of half-life? Do people who experience psychotic breaks even know that it's happening? What does Plato have to do with all of this?
“He felt all at once like an ineffectual moth, fluttering at the windowpane of reality, dimly seeing it from outside.”
 
CHAPTERS
(00:00:00) intro to the world of Ubik
(00:08:35) critique of PKD’s worldbuilding
(00:20:10) Cold storage and half-life suspended animation
00:25:00) Why is everything decaying? entropy and platonic essences
(00:34:43) Joe Chip’s search for Ubik + the battle between Jory and Ella
(00:43:10) Christian parallels and PKD’s gnostic epiphany
(00:58:35) Arguing whether the twist ending is lazy writing
(01:06:28) Is PKD under or overrated?
(01:09:54) Psychosis, psychedelics, and paranoia
SEND US MAIL:
douevenlit@gmail.com
 
NEXT ON THE READING LIST:
The Fall - Camus
Hamlet - Shakespeare
Piranesi - Susanna Clarke

“As Gregor Samsa awoke one morning from uneasy dreams he found himself transformed in his bed into an enormous insect.”
(who amongst us, etc)
This week we're talking Kafka's 1915 novella The Metamorphosis.
Rich swoons over Gregor and is deeply moved by his plight. Cam wonders whether the giant freaky bug might bear some responsibility for events. Benny starts out sorta lukewarm on the whole thing but comes around in the end.
Is this story meant to be a depiction of depression? An autobiographical work about an artist becoming alienated from his philistine family? A Marxist commentary on capitalism? A subconscious Freudian incest thriller? 
We fearlessly explore all of these interpretations... and if you can believe it, even more
CHAPTERS
(00:00:00) reinterpreting kafka thru the lens of richard dawkins tweets
(00:01:50) what kinda filthy vermin are we dealing with here??
(00:06:57) arguing about what Gregor’s initial reaction means
00:15:44) part two synopsis: I didn't choose the bug life
(00:19:17) Cam’s incest theory: who is the real parasite?
(00:25:15) Metamorphosis as kafka's autobiographical self-therapy
(00:36:30) Alienation and depression
(00:44:12) genuinely upset about Gregor’s plight
(00:50:48) Is kafka meant to be funny?
(00:54:23) Refreshing subversion of realism
(01:01:29) closing thoughts
Send us mail: doyouevenlitbro@gmail.com
NEXT ON THE READING LIST:
Ubik - Philip K DickThe Fall - CamusHamlet - Shakespeare

Wrapping up Mary Shelley's Frankenstein, which we all loved.
Nature vs nurture: the monster as proto-incel, to what extent do we feel sympathy for him, should Victor have made him a bride, self-loathing and recrimination, and whether hot people are actually more virtuous than ugly people.
Also: why rousseau was a giant piece of shit, the monster as Byronic hero, importance of pariahs and moral entrepreneurs, pitbull discourse, etc
CHAPTERS
(00:00:00) just grave robber problems
(00:05:20) peephole language learning montage
(00:09:00) Nature vs nurture debate
00:17:00) Cam’s crank theory that hot people are more virtuous
(00:24:11) Frankenstein as the original incel
(00:28:40) pitbull digression
(00:33:31) Ethics of making frank a bride and letting him go
(00:42:20) The monster as the true Byronic hero
(00:52:50) Sympathy for the devil
(00:59:02) Romantic heroes as moral entrepreneurs
Send us mail: doyouevenlitbro@gmail.com
COMING UP
The Metamorphosis - Franz Kafka
Ubik - Philip K Dick
The Fall - Camus

Discussing chapters 1-10 of Mary Shelley's 1818 genre mash-up Frankenstein.
On Mary Shelley's stacked genetics, the 'scenius' with Lord Byron and Percy Shelley, questions over authorship including a suspiciously accurate depiction of post-nut clarity.
Forbidden knowledge: are infohazards real, taking accountability for new technology, guilt and the disgust instinct, strong parallels with AGI, arguments for and against creating new species. Can we defend a parochial concern for our own family/friends/species?
Is the monster innately evil? Or a product of his environment?
We love this book. hyped to hear the monster's side of the story in part 2.
CHAPTERS
(00:00:00) pop culture Frankenstein and namespace collision
(00:04:55) synopsis
(00:07:56) Initial reactions
00:11:20) Suspiciously accurate depiction of post-nut clarity
(00:13:38) Mary Shelley’s elite genetics
(00:16:54) Forbidden knowledge and infohazards
(00:26:08) Victor as deadbeat dad
(00:31:15) AGI comparison: how do we feel about creating a new species?
(00:38:00) The burden of guilt (the bumblebee incident)
(00:41:27) Nature vs nurture and rebelling against god
(00:45:08) Back to the question of AGI and creating new species
(00:55:35) Parochialism and expanding moral circles
(01:03:45) Cultural legacy of this book
(01:08:43) should Zuckerberg and friends try to model consequences of AI?
Send us mail: doyouevenlitbro@gmail.com
COMING UP
The Metamorphosis - Franz Kafka
Ubik - Philip K Dick
The Fall - Camus
 

Wandering through Samuel Beckett's 1953 absurdist play Waiting for Godot.
Did Beckett actually have an interpretation in mind, or did he deliberately write a maximally vague story that everyone could map their own interests onto?
How well does the humour hold up over time? Where does Beckett rank in the canon of absurdist and existentialist writers? What proportion of reported suicides are actually autoerotic asphyxiation accidents? etc 
CHAPTERS
(00:00:00) gooning oneself to death
(00:05:28) synopsis (nothing happens, twice)
(00:07:32) Initial reactions + arguing about interpretation
00:17:16) What are we waiting for?
(00:22:09) Religious, Freudian, Marxist interpretations
(00:26:56) tHaT’s sOOO RANdoM!!
(00:31:00) Beckett’s fame
(00:35:01) Beckett vs Camus
(00:38:02) The One True Interpretation

Our final session with W. Somerset Maugham's The Razor's Edge (chapters 5-7).
Elliot Templeton as the last relic of a dying age. Was he really happy? We consider his self-worship and clout-chasing Catholicism as a counterpoint to Larry's spirituality. Rest in power queen.
Sophie MacDonald attempts to climb off the wheel of suffering via more prosaic means. Did she get what she wanted? An argument over whether Isabel is a total psycho or only a minor-league bitch. 
Larry's spiritual journey as a synthesis of the best parts of the Eastern tradition. Was this whole book just a delivery mechanism for Vedic philosophy? On the transmigration of souls, God as a deadbeat dad, and whether it's bad for society to encourage serenity-maxxing.
CHAPTERS
(00:00:00) tattoo discourse
(00:02:18) The sad (?) saga of Elliott Templeton
(00:16:31) The sad saga of Sophie MacDonald
(00:29:25) Is this whole book just a delivery vehicle for vedic philosophy?
(00:36:18) Larry’s struggle with the problem of evil
(00:42:11) Oneness and universality of transcendent experience
(00:47:03) Buddhism as a mind-killing philosophy
(00:52:22) The boys experience with meditating

Discussing chapters 4 and 5 of W. Somerset Maugham's The Razor's Edge.
Larry becomes aloof and reserved. Is he really bringing anything to the table besides his sexy forearms? Has he gone full woo-woo granola cruncher? Why can Kosti only talk about spirituality when he's drunk? Why aren't muses a thing these days?
CHAPTERS
(00:00:00) Synopsis
(00:02:23) What do we think of Larry now?
(00:13:54) Curing Gray’s headache
(00:16:50) Christian mysticism as thinly veiled Buddhism
(00:20:05) What does Kosti’s character represent?
(00:28:30) Why we can take Larry more seriously than typical hippie
(00:33:10) This book would hit way harder at age 18 or 20
(00:41:28) What happened to muses? (these old service sector jobs)

Cracking into the first three chapters of Maugham's 1944 spiritual odyssey.
Why do we love Larry so much? Rich talks about his own years of loafing around. Is Larry's decision to take a step off the beaten path less admirable given his 'trifling' $54,000 inflation-adjusted stipend?
Talking about the spergy drive to collect All the Knowledge, and how to think about which problems to work on. Is the pursuit of knowledge for its own sake a noble activity, or should we actually be building stuff in the world? 
CHAPTERS
(00:00:00) Synopsis
(00:02:18) Everyone loves Larry
(00:06:26) The perils of stepping off the beaten path
(00:09:30) Larry the trust fund kid
(00:12:34) Pursuit of knowledge vs building stuff
(00:20:00) How to choose which problems to work on?
(00:26:00) Larry as mythic Siddhartha figure
(00:28:00) Sex as a brief respite from 10 hours of reading
(00:33:04) Maugham’s style and Herman Hesse comparison
(00:37:01) Predictions for how Larry’s journey plays out

Starts with light and breezy over-sharing of our masturbatory habits, ends with a downer discussion about how we should re-contextualise Wallace's work thru the lens of the abuse allegations against him.
The main stories we talk about:
Brief Interview #59: Logically coherent masturbation fantasies (00:01:34) is this a universal experience, why are adolescent boys so creepy, the rare 'gooner to godhood' pathway.
Brief Interview #28 (00:10:20) Does feminism create a double bind for modern women, was the sexual revolution a mistake, what's with the neo-trad movement, why everyone should have the freedom to make mistakes and explore their preferences.
On His Deathbed, Holding Your Hand... (00:30:02) a paean to r/childfree? do parents sometimes secretly hate their children, why small kids are sociopaths, was the father an unreliable narrator, 'radical honesty' is a terrible idea, are lies of omission morally permissible, rich's experience of fatherhood.
Church Not Made With Hands (00:52:42) dreamlike disorientation, modernist subjectivism redux, what does the title mean, ego and pride as an obstacle to healing.
The Mary Karr abuse allegations (01:10:38) what are the allegations against DFW, can mental health ever absolve people of responsibility, a framework for separating art from artist, should we reanalyse DFW’s work in light of what we know about his life, to what extent is he telling on himself in this book.
Brief Interview #20 and #46: The Granola Cruncher and the Viktor Frankl guy (01:27:25) are harm and traumatic events 'good' if they lead to more meaningful lives, could you weaponise this argument to justify anything, epic levels of cope never before conceived of.

This week's discussion is loosely based around the story Octet, but really we just drill down on what David Foster Wallace is trying to achieve in this collection.
How much metafiction is too much metafiction, does DFW stray into self-indulgence, the leap of faith he asks from his readers, is it possible to tactically and deliberately try to be sincere (or is this another double bind), and whether Brief Interviews is really about toxic masculinity.
CHAPTERS
(00:00:00) The paradox of trying to come across as sincere
(00:09:16) Overdosing on DFW’s schtick
(00:18:05) is Wallace stylistically rangebound as a writer?
(00:22:29) DFW’s take on empathising with the reader
(00:25:57) Is Brief Interviews really about toxic masculinity?
(00:32:49) Wittgenstein and the language problem/solipsism

Wallace's 1999 collection of short stories takes us to some uncomfortable places (and as always, is eerily prescient).
In this week's discussion we talk about his 'juvenilia' coming-of-age story Forever Overhead, his famous piece The Depressed Person, and a smattering of the titular brief interviews.
We kinda fucked up the format on this by trying to talk about everything. But salvaged some bits about nostalgia, the blurred lines between narcissism and depression, therapy culture, and why metafiction is played out.
CHAPTERS
(00:00:00) quick blather and disclaimer
(00:01:55) Forever Overhead: mainlining nostalgia of late childhood
(00:09:04) starting to get sick of DFW’s tics and the metafiction schtick in general
(00:14:54) Brief Interview #11 (the guy who keeps leaving his gf because she is worried about him leaving her again)
(00:17:52) Brief Interview #3 (the airport shaggy dog story)
(00:20:40) Brief Interview #31 (how a great lover really pleases a lady)
(00:26:02) The Depressed Person: sincere or a satire of self-obsessed narcissists?
(00:34:14) is identifying with this character a massive self-own
(00:37:30) Should everyone really go to therapy?
(00:44:24) Having a cute baby as cure for depression

An anticlimactic final discussion to an anticlimactic book. We are confused and afraid. Cam is on the brink of quitting reading altogether.
This discussion covers Parts 2 and 3 of To The Lighthouse. Actual book-related content starts at 11 minutes.
CHAPTERS
(00:00:00) Normative ethics and incest cold open
(00:11:00) Infectiousness of social energy
(00:15:16) The Chad Carmichael vs the Virgin Tansley
(00:22:16) Entropy and the passage of time
(00:26:21) Lily Briscoe as Virginia Woolf
(00:33:00) sidebar on which book to read next
(00:34:32) On finally getting to the lighthouse
(00:42:22) What's the significance of Lily's painting?
(00:43:48) Final thoughts on why this book gave us trouble

Rich waxes lyrical about the dinner party scene. Do men have impaired theory of mind, or are they just assholes? On the invisible mastery of social reality, and capturing subjective experience in literature. It goes well enough that the boys decide to actually read the rest of the book.
CHAPTERS
(00:00:00) pre-roll jibber jabber
(00:12:55) a man monologues on the male tendency to monologue
(00:17:35) bogged down by poetic prose
(00:22:33) Women as facilitators of social interactions
(00:32:02) Do women have better theory of mind, or are men just assholes?
(00:42:12) Mastery over social reality is invisible
(00:48:34) Subject-object distinction
(00:51:50) Where to from here
(00:55:27) Further thoughts on value of subjective experience in writing
(01:02:06) Are we gonna actually finish the book

A fragmented jumble of multiple shifting perspectives, punctuated by abrupt jumps between topics and timelines, infused with the frustration of trying to express intensely-felt experiences within the bounds of mere words.
(oh and we also talked about a Virginia Woolf book)
 
CHAPTERS
(00:00:00) - we are NOT going to the lighthouse
(00:11:16) - Rich makes the case for persevering
(00:14:16) - Cam pleads preference for plain prose
(00:17:51) - Ideas that can only be conveyed through fiction
(00:25:21) - Synopsis of part 1: The Window
(00:27:30) - Autobiographical elements from Woolf's life
(00:29:40) - What ideas would a modern Bloomsbury group explore?
(00:32:15) - C.P. Snow's The Two Cultures: literature as status game
(00:40:40) - Bryan Boyd lens on the importance of stories for advancing knowledge
(00:44:33) - exquisite peer pressuring Cam into continuing with the book

These days the 'multiverse' idea is standard marvel slop. But if we read this story in 1941 it would have blown our tiny little minds.
how tf did Borges sit at the cutting edge of philosophy and physics without doing the classic info-dump spergy thing?
We read one of our favourite stories in search of Clues
(actual plot-related analysis starts around the 1 hour mark)
 
CHAPTERS
(00:00:00) synopsis and throat clearing
(00:06:43) Borges the troll (death of the author redux)
(00:16:23) How this mf had so many original ideas
(00:22:12) Cho Chang discourse
(00:30:30) Conceptual analysis of being cool
(00:42:20) History of the multiverse
(00:52:23) ambiguity of the Liddell Hart intro
(01:01:22) Fatalism and free will
(01:18:53) What motivates Yu Tsun?
(01:25:05) maze strategy chat
(01:31:20) When we first encountered the multiverse
(01:34:00) Does multiverse imply all possible things happen?
(01:49:25) Real hypertext has never been tried

Full transcript for this episode is available at doyouevenlit.com — sort by ideas, authors, and more.
Our critical consensus on John William's sleeper bestseller Stoner:
There is almost no plot
The main character doesn't get the girl, or really succeed at anything
Gigantic violation of 'show don't tell', starting on literally page one
WE FUCKING LOVE THIS BOOK
could it be...a perfect novel?
we try figure out why we relate so hard to Mr William Stoner, the great shining exemplar of principled mediocrity.
CHAPTERS
00:00:00 - the perfect novel
00:06:23 - synopsis
00:10:20 - why each of us loved this book
00:17:02 - Mediocrity as the modal outcome
00:22:26 - Is Stoner a good stoic or too passive?
00:33:24 - Edith and toxic femininity
00:42:36 - Subverting the hero/saviour trope
00:48:00 - The Lomax/Walker feud
00:58:30 - Academia as an asylum for misfits
01:03:00 - Lust and learning with Katherine Driscoll
01:07:30 - Dying with dignity
01:10:32 - Where does this stand in the canon?
01:17:18 - Ignoring ’show don’t tell’, plain sincere prose
01:20:40 - assorted culture war stuff
01:28:35 - choosing next book

closing out the last section of the book with death, entropy, and thwarted ambitions:
Why David Deutsch wouldn't approve of Houellebecg
True artists impose their vision upon the world
Sacred values and euthanasia
Should kanye get back on his meds
Not sure why the audio cuts off abruptly at the end but it does feel appropriate
CHAPTERS
(00:00:00) Third act murder mystery wtf
(00:08:03) Yearning for some bygone era
(00:13:49) Deutschian critique of MH’s pessimism
(00:20:38) Euthanasia and sacred values
(00:30:52) What does Houllebecq’s death signify?
(00:39:44) Final thoughts on map vs territory
(00:48:23) being open to criticism vs imposing a singular artistic vision upon the world

This section is light on plot but we do get a coherent theme: the perversions that emerge from consumer capitalism's relentless optimisation process.
will our hero Jed maintain his artistic integrity and stop feeding the beast? does Houellebecq think of himself as a kind of ethnographer? Does the g-spot actually exist? etc
 
benny's audio still sucks. actual book content starts at 00:06:19
 
CHAPTERS
(00:00:00) what if we kissed under the mistletoe
(00:06:19) is art just expensive furniture
(00:17:48) refining Houllebecq's actual beef with consumer capitalism
(00:21:51) how true creativity can be corrupted by profit motive
(00:27:42) b*stiality bodycount digression
(00:29:53) Houllebecq as neutral ethnographer
(00:36:34) hot people are smarter too. its not fair
(00:42:18) height discourse
(00:48:14) William Morris
(00:52:47) trying and failing to talk about death
(00:55:28) how many holes are down there anyway??

Some good stuff coming up already in part 1 of The Map and The Territory:
how our models of the world can change underlying physical reality
is modern art a psyop?
why plato would hate 'brand-name' tourism experience
benny's audio is completely cooked on this. I lost the files so I can't fix it sorry
CHAPTERS
(00:00:00) playdough’s cave
(00:04:01) is modern art a psyop
(00:07:59) straussian readings of plato
(00:12:21) map-territory distinction
(00:16:21) jed is a true artist
(00:25:00) raising children without the threat of physical violence
(00:31:00) what blows jed’s skirt up?
(00:40:40) woody allen goat
(00:44:10) rotten tomatoes manufactures mediocrity
(00:51:33) its good art brent!
(00:53:20) when the map changes the underlying territory, part 1
(00:58:05) wanky status signals can still mediate subjective experience
(01:05:50) modern books are easier to read
(01:11:42) when the map changes the underlying territory, part 2